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orhunter wrote:Facebook has no rules, expect the worst. My wife follows a Griff Blog, Griffology, that has some very nice looking dogs, some actually hunt. She joined another one that may have been called something like, The Western Hunting Griffon, but hasn't posted anything. Drop the word "hunting." It's Western Griffons.
Just-a-bird-hunter wrote: I don't why those people have to have the word "Griffon" in their title; seems a bit daft to me. But, what do I know!
Because it denotes a subtype. AFAIK, "Griffon" denotes a phenotype in coat...Like saying "Shorthaired" or "wirehaired." So, there is the Brussels Griffon, which is a toy breed with a shaggy coat and beard, a Basset scenthound Griffon of some sort in AKC, looks like a Griff coat on a basset hound, etc...So in a way it isn't unlike saying "wirehaired Fox Terrier" or "wirehaired Dahshund." The FCI lumps them in with the Griff and Spinone on group 7.3.Just-a-bird-hunter wrote: I don't why those people have to have the word "Griffon" in their title; seems a bit daft to me. But, what do I know!
Is that the case? I've never seen a pedigree so I guess its hard to say. If you bought a PP from a Bodo litter after he left NAVHDA would NAVHDA register it? Would FDSB register it? FCI?flitecontrol wrote:
When one breed is outcrossed, with another, the foundation breed's name is retained. It's why Pudelpointers aren't called Pointers, even though they may have more Pointer than Pudel blood. Bodo Winterhelt, the man largely responsible for popularizing the PP in North America, outcrossed with what he considered exceptional Pointers. He might have used Pudels too, if that breed had been available and had dogs worthy of breeding. While I don't know if modern European PP breeders have done the same, it would be reasonable to assume they would if they felt the need. What most people recognize as versatile breeds were an amalgamation of many dogs from various existing types. I'm not sure the Europeans are as "breed blind" as many North Americans seem to be.
JONOV wrote:Is that the case? I've never seen a pedigree so I guess its hard to say. If you bought a PP from a Bodo litter after he left NAVHDA would NAVHDA register it? Would FDSB register it? FCI?
Also, Bob Farris in his interview with the Hunting Dog Podcast said the Pudel was likely the Barbet.
flitecontrol wrote:JONOV wrote:Is that the case? I've never seen a pedigree so I guess its hard to say. If you bought a PP from a Bodo litter after he left NAVHDA would NAVHDA register it? Would FDSB register it? FCI?
Also, Bob Farris in his interview with the Hunting Dog Podcast said the Pudel was likely the Barbet.
When the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Club of America (WPGCA) chose to outcross with Fouseks, NAVHDA refused to recognize any dogs from Griffon/Fousek breedings. Yet Bodo's outcrossed dogs were never questioned by NAVHDA. Seemed pretty hypocritical to a lot of folks, including Ed Bailey, one of the founders of NAVDA. He wrote a very strong letter of resignation to the organization. Wish I still had a copy, and could remember the name of the NAVHDA official who was responsible for the decision. I didn't know Bodo had split with NAVHDA, but that may have been the reason he left. I'll see if Ed Bailey knows and report back. All in all, a sad example of politics at its worst IMO. The WPGCA set up their own registry.
I can't remember the name of the individual that set forth the principle of developing one of the versatile breeds (DD?) but it went something like this: "Breed as you see fit, but be open about what you breed with."
I don't think anyone knows for sure what a Pudel was. It could have been a predecessor of the Barbet, the Barbet, or something else.
JONOV wrote:
flitecontrol wrote:JONOV wrote:Is that the case? I've never seen a pedigree so I guess its hard to say. If you bought a PP from a Bodo litter after he left NAVHDA would NAVHDA register it? Would FDSB register it? FCI?
Also, Bob Farris in his interview with the Hunting Dog Podcast said the Pudel was likely the Barbet.
When the Wirehaired Pointing Griffon Club of America (WPGCA) chose to outcross with Fouseks, NAVHDA refused to recognize any dogs from Griffon/Fousek breedings. Yet Bodo's outcrossed dogs were never questioned by NAVHDA. Seemed pretty hypocritical to a lot of folks, including Ed Bailey, one of the founders of NAVDA. He wrote a very strong letter of resignation to the organization. Wish I still had a copy, and could remember the name of the NAVHDA official who was responsible for the decision. I didn't know Bodo had split with NAVHDA, but that may have been the reason he left. I'll see if Ed Bailey knows and report back. All in all, a sad example of politics at its worst IMO. The WPGCA set up their own registry.
I can't remember the name of the individual that set forth the principle of developing one of the versatile breeds (DD?) but it went something like this: "Breed as you see fit, but be open about what you breed with."
I don't think anyone knows for sure what a Pudel was. It could have been a predecessor of the Barbet, the Barbet, or something else.
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