Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby Stretch » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:31 am

flitecontrol wrote:
Stretch wrote:I just got done doing a competition hunt for coyotes and have another coming up in couple weeks. One being a kill contest and another just a field trial type deal. I have hounds and I love listening and watching them run just like watching my WPG work birds. To do away with coyote hunting competitions would have a very ill affect on livestock and all kinds of hunting in my part of the country. That and fox hounds are one of the oldest past times. People need to quit being snowflakes and realize we like hunting and fishing just as much as they like doing there underwater basket weaving. Also hunters in general do more for habitat and game than any of them have for the most part.


Are cash prizes involved? If yes, the argument could be made that the cash is the reason for the killing, not predator control or something else. Are the animals/pelts utilized in any way? It would be positive PR for these events if some or parts of the animals were used rather than being discarded. Many non-hunters support hunting if the animal is eaten or utilized in some way. Have there been any studies about what impact, if any, these competitions have on livestock and wildlife? Both have co-existed for a long time. The environment is somewhat like a balloon; stick a finger in it, and it expands somewhere else, often with a ripple effect. For example, when wolves were removed from the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, elk numbers grew so much that they overbrowsed their habitat, stressing the entire population.
When wolves were reintroduced, elk numbers fell, but overall herd condition improved as their habitat, no longer being so heavily grazed, rebounded. When raccoons were removed from endangered sea turtle nesting beaches to reduce nest depredation, the ghost crab population expanded. Raccoons find a limited number of nests. Ghost crabs, which live in tunnels in the sand and are also eaten by raccoons, destroyed as many or more nests than the raccoons had. Turtle eggs are a seasonal food for raccoons. but they eat ghost crabs year 'round.


The hides are sold and the money is gave to the ffa chapters. You don’t get anything for winning besides a little trophy deal and bragging rights. They have a raffle and dinner where everyone gets together and lies to each other and laughs a lot. Hard to say there is anything wrong with this in my opinion.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:09 am

Stretch wrote:The hides are sold and the money is gave to the ffa chapters. You don’t get anything for winning besides a little trophy deal and bragging rights. They have a raffle and dinner where everyone gets together and lies to each other and laughs a lot. Hard to say there is anything wrong with this in my opinion.


If there are no heaps of coyotes for photo opportunities and posting to social media, I too see no problem with that. But if it's true that some contests offer cash prizes, IMO, that detracts from any positives the event may provide. It's unfortunate that not all sportsmen and women are sensitive to how the public may perceive their sport. We all need to be aware of that. In the public arena, one "Oh crap!" wipes out ten "Attaboys!", and the anti hunting crowd will spotlight any negatives they can find.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby Kiger2 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:31 pm

As an Oregonian I will be putting some time in on this to see what can be done.

Just wanted to talk a bit about Yellowstone. Yellowstone is actually not a natural ecosystem since Wolves were reintroduced. For thousands of years Native Americans lived in the Yellowstone country. They hunted there, game animals and predators. It wasnt just the removal of wolves that caused the elk population to grow. It was also the elimination of hunting
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby ryanr » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:24 am

flitecontrol wrote:AG, I've never been on an organized coyote hunt, but have shot a few over the years as the opportunity or need arose, and will continue to do so. But I do have some ethical issues with shooting animals (and fishing) for cash, which is what it appears these coyote contests are. If a group of coyote hunters wants to get together and see how many each can legally bag, I would have no objection so long as the public doesn't see the bloody results. The picture of a trailer load of dead coyotes on the anti-hunting site you linked to is going to negatively influence those who might otherwise have been undecided or neutral about hunting in general and coyote contests in particular. All they see is a bunch of dog-like corpses that haven't been treated with respect. It brought to mind pictures from the WWII Nazi concentration camps. Non-hunters who view such carnage will associate it with all hunting. Just as we no longer see hunters strapping their deer to the hoods of their vehicles and parading down public roads, the organizers of these events should be savvy enough to never provide a photo opportunity that captures such scenes. Unfortunately, there are fools aplenty that shoot themselves (and all hunters!) in the foot and provide fodder to the antis in the process. I hate being associated, rightly or wrongly, with such folks.


What happened to your plea that hunters need to stand united in defense of our sport?
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby mtbirder » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:25 am

What happened to your plea that hunters need to stand united in defense of our sport?[/quote]

ryanr, not an attempt to answer your question for flitecontrol, but a thought regarding your question.
There definitely is a divergence of opinions regarding ethics amongst those of us in the hunting "community". Seems many of us believe that if hunters aren't in this camp or that camp (read mine), this signifies that those with the opposing opinion aren't in the correct minded camp.
Lotta' ways and opinions about how to stand in defense of our sport.
I'll bet anyone responding to the posts about this issue is as much concerned with our passion(s) as anyone else. Can we get together to provide a united "front"? That's the really tough one.........
Although I am guilty of utilizing these forums, I think like everything else in our internet culture, the www. has really provided a vehicle to accentuate our differences - maybe more than our similarities - except for we agree we like dogs, guns, and hunting.
If we leave ethics, politics, opinions, etc outta' these forums, we will all probably get along better and be happy looking at dog pics and share info about force fetching.
But bigger things that affect hunting are happening everyday-ignore them at our peril.
I have backed off some other forums due to this very issue, and don't post much anywhere anymore.
Glad I'm on the backside of 50 and most of my outdoorsman days are behind me. What's left I plan to enjoy A LOT. The younger bunch of hunter/anglers is in for a rough ride.........
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:38 pm

ryanr wrote:What happened to your plea that hunters need to stand united in defense of our sport?


It depends on how you define our sport. Is commercial fishing sport? Hunting, or fishing, to make money don't fit my definition of sport. Neither does shooting animals released from cages in front of a "hunter". But some still call it hunting. Are live pigeon shoots hunting? To the non-hunting public, anyone shooting at animals is a hunter, and whatever they do, good or bad, gets labeled as hunting. And it's the public's perception of hunting that's important when it comes to restrictions on hunting. Without it, hunting faces a bleak future.

Anyone remember Dan Rather's smear job, "The Guns of Autumn", from the mid 1970's? It was a blatant attack on hunting, and caused me to see red anytime I heard Rathers name after that. It used skillful editing to depict hunting and hunters in an extremely negative manner. But there are a couple of segments I still recall and shake my head at. IMO, they were prime examples of people doing really stupid things under the guise of "hunting" and were so offensive they didn't need any editing to put hunting in a bad light. One was at a "hunting preserve" where a client (I won't call him a hunter) was taken to a fenced enclosure with a white buck in it. The deer was clearly accustomed to humans as it didn't try to move away from the client and his "guide". Even if it had, I don't think there was any cover it could hide in. The deer is standing still, broadside, not very far away from the client, with the fence clearly visible in the background, when he shoots. It's a bad shot. The deer, with blood all over it's white coat, runs around the pen for a while and eventually collapses. Close up of the animal that is clearly still alive and breathing. The guide whips out his pistol, points it at the deer's head and asks the client if he wants him to finish it off. The hunter responds "Don't shoot him in the head! I'm paying (for the deer) and don't want the mount to be ruined." So the camera continues to roll, showing the blood coming out of the buck's wound as the animal struggles to breath. Off camera, you can hear the client and guide discuss their next move. Eventually, the client agrees to let the guide shoot it in the chest. The first shot doesn't kill it right away and more shots are taken before the animal finally quits breathing. It ends with the guide congratulating the client for his "trophy". The other segment was a Wyoming (?) "buffalo hunt". The state issued a number of permits each year to allow hunters to shoot penned bison. In fairness, I think the pastures the bison were in were fairly good sized, but their movement was limited. The lady in the segment made a good hit, but it did take a while for the buffalo to go down. This program was aired on national television, and created a lot of controversy. Hunters, me included, were incensed as to how hunting and hunters were portrayed. Many viewers who had been neutral or supported hunting, accepted the show as reflective of all hunters and hunting. Hunters lost a lot of public support because of it.

As a teenager in Oklahoma back in the late 1950's I remember seing a pile of cottontails about four feet in diameter and one or two feet high. They had been shot and dumped in a field visible from the road. At the time, I wondered why those who had shot them didn't utilize them in some way. Now I not only am revolted by their lack of respect for the amimals, but for their failure to realize how their actions would be perceived by others.

I give these examples because I think they reflect the difficult issues hunters face. Can all hunters agree what constitutes hunting? I don't think so. So where do we go from this point, and how do we decide what is, or is not, hunting? For me, defining hunting comes down to personal values, and some of what is described as hunting doesn't fit mine. Should a hunter swallow hard, and hold his or her nose to close ranks with others that don't share the same values in the name of unity? Maybe. But I won't.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby ryanr » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:28 pm

flitecontrol wrote:
ryanr wrote:What happened to your plea that hunters need to stand united in defense of our sport?


It depends on how you define our sport. Is commercial fishing sport? Hunting, or fishing, to make money don't fit my definition of sport. Neither does shooting animals released from cages in front of a "hunter". But some still call it hunting. Are live pigeon shoots hunting? To the non-hunting public, anyone shooting at animals is a hunter, and whatever they do, good or bad, gets labeled as hunting. And it's the public's perception of hunting that's important when it comes to restrictions on hunting. Without it, hunting faces a bleak future.

Anyone remember Dan Rather's smear job, "The Guns of Autumn", from the mid 1970's? It was a blatant attack on hunting, and caused me to see red anytime I heard Rathers name after that. It used skillful editing to depict hunting and hunters in an extremely negative manner. But there are a couple of segments I still recall and shake my head at. IMO, they were prime examples of people doing really stupid things under the guise of "hunting" and were so offensive they didn't need any editing to put hunting in a bad light. One was at a "hunting preserve" where a client (I won't call him a hunter) was taken to a fenced enclosure with a white buck in it. The deer was clearly accustomed to humans as it didn't try to move away from the client and his "guide". Even if it had, I don't think there was any cover it could hide in. The deer is standing still, broadside, not very far away from the client, with the fence clearly visible in the background, when he shoots. It's a bad shot. The deer, with blood all over it's white coat, runs around the pen for a while and eventually collapses. Close up of the animal that is clearly still alive and breathing. The guide whips out his pistol, points it at the deer's head and asks the client if he wants him to finish it off. The hunter responds "Don't shoot him in the head! I'm paying (for the deer) and don't want the mount to be ruined." So the camera continues to roll, showing the blood coming out of the buck's wound as the animal struggles to breath. Off camera, you can hear the client and guide discuss their next move. Eventually, the client agrees to let the guide shoot it in the chest. The first shot doesn't kill it right away and more shots are taken before the animal finally quits breathing. It ends with the guide congratulating the client for his "trophy". The other segment was a Wyoming (?) "buffalo hunt". The state issued a number of permits each year to allow hunters to shoot penned bison. In fairness, I think the pastures the bison were in were fairly good sized, but their movement was limited. The lady in the segment made a good hit, but it did take a while for the buffalo to go down. This program was aired on national television, and created a lot of controversy. Hunters, me included, were incensed as to how hunting and hunters were portrayed. Many viewers who had been neutral or supported hunting, accepted the show as reflective of all hunters and hunting. Hunters lost a lot of public support because of it.

As a teenager in Oklahoma back in the late 1950's I remember seing a pile of cottontails about four feet in diameter and one or two feet high. They had been shot and dumped in a field visible from the road. At the time, I wondered why those who had shot them didn't utilize them in some way. Now I not only am revolted by their lack of respect for the amimals, but for their failure to realize how their actions would be perceived by others.

I give these examples because I think they reflect the difficult issues hunters face. Can all hunters agree what constitutes hunting? I don't think so. So where do we go from this point, and how do we decide what is, or is not, hunting? For me, defining hunting comes down to personal values, and some of what is described as hunting doesn't fit mine. Should a hunter swallow hard, and hold his or her nose to close ranks with others that don't share the same values in the name of unity? Maybe. But I won't.


Seriously? To try to draw some comparison between Comercial fishing and hunting or fishing contests is silly. Commercial fisherman are trying to earn an actual living, an annual salary. In a local hunting or fishing contest, no one is making a living off the occasional small amount of prize-money they may win from having the heaviest coyote or fish.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:55 pm

ryanr wrote:Seriously? To try to draw some comparison between Comercial fishing and hunting or fishing contests is silly. Commercial fisherman are trying to earn an actual living, an annual salary. In a local hunting or fishing contest, no one is making a living off the occasional small amount of prize-money they may win from having the heaviest coyote or fish.


So tournament fishermen aren't earning a living from it? Call me silly, but according to this 2016 article, Kevin Van Dam has collected over $6.2 million in winnings since his first B.A.S.S. tournament in 1997. That's just his winnings, and doesn't include the thousands and thousands of dollars of freebies, including boats, vehicles, motors, gear, etc., from his sponsors. He's been fishing competitively for 19 years as of the article date, which averages over $326,000.00 per year. Not too shabby for "small amount of prize-money" fishing contests. With that much money at stake, it's hard to say contestants are just in it for the competition/camaraderie/sport. https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/07 ... w-24-wins/

Where there is money to be made, someone will try to stack the odds in their favor. Some time back, unscrupulous tournament contestants were buying or catching fish before the tournament and placing them in cages where they could retrieve them and claim they were caught during the tournament. Several major tournaments were won this way. A black market in large Florida bass developed. The scheme was exposed when an alert fisheries biologist recognized the fish as Florida strain bass, which weren't found in the lake where the tournament took place. Look here for more on this subject: https://www.wideopenspaces.com/cheaters ... ters-lost/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBYk7oEhcEg https://www.wired2fish.com/tournament-f ... ournament/

When money begins to be associated with a blood sport, participants focus less on the sport and more on the money. The more money to be made, the more the sport suffers, and IMO, the less the public will support that activity. All sportsmen need to examine their activities not just from a personal view, but also by how the general public sees them.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby carramrod » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:11 am

flitecontrol wrote:
ryanr wrote:Seriously? To try to draw some comparison between Comercial fishing and hunting or fishing contests is silly. Commercial fisherman are trying to earn an actual living, an annual salary. In a local hunting or fishing contest, no one is making a living off the occasional small amount of prize-money they may win from having the heaviest coyote or fish.


So tournament fishermen aren't earning a living from it? Call me silly, but according to this 2016 article, Kevin Van Dam has collected over $6.2 million in winnings since his first B.A.S.S. tournament in 1997. That's just his winnings, and doesn't include the thousands and thousands of dollars of freebies, including boats, vehicles, motors, gear, etc., from his sponsors. He's been fishing competitively for 19 years as of the article date, which averages over $326,000.00 per year. Not too shabby for "small amount of prize-money" fishing contests. With that much money at stake, it's hard to say contestants are just in it for the competition/camaraderie/sport. https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/07 ... w-24-wins/

Where there is money to be made, someone will try to stack the odds in their favor. Some time back, unscrupulous tournament contestants were buying or catching fish before the tournament and placing them in cages where they could retrieve them and claim they were caught during the tournament. Several major tournaments were won this way. A black market in large Florida bass developed. The scheme was exposed when an alert fisheries biologist recognized the fish as Florida strain bass, which weren't found in the lake where the tournament took place. Look here for more on this subject: https://www.wideopenspaces.com/cheaters ... ters-lost/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBYk7oEhcEg https://www.wired2fish.com/tournament-f ... ournament/

When money begins to be associated with a blood sport, participants focus less on the sport and more on the money. The more money to be made, the more the sport suffers, and IMO, the less the public will support that activity. All sportsmen need to examine their activities not just from a personal view, but also by how the general public sees them.


What about trapping?
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:30 am

Stretch wrote:
flitecontrol wrote:
Stretch wrote:I just got done doing a competition hunt for coyotes and have another coming up in couple weeks. One being a kill contest and another just a field trial type deal....


Are cash prizes involved? .... Are the animals/pelts utilized in any way? It would be positive PR for these events if some or parts of the animals were used rather than being discarded. Many non-hunters support hunting if the animal is eaten or utilized in some way.


flitecontrol wrote:
Stretch wrote:The hides are sold and the money is gave to the ffa chapters. You don’t get anything for winning besides a little trophy deal and bragging rights. They have a raffle and dinner where everyone gets together and lies to each other and laughs a lot. Hard to say there is anything wrong with this in my opinion.


If there are no heaps of coyotes for photo opportunities and posting to social media, I too see no problem with that.


carramrod wrote:What about trapping?


Wile I didn't specifically address trapping, because the pelts are utilized, I have no objection to trapping. To me, trapping is less associated with sport hunting or fishing and more like commercial fishing because few would do it without the money incentive.

On a side note, beaver is excellent meat. If you haven't tried it, and get the opportunhity to do so, you won't be disappointed.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:46 pm

No one is breaking even on the prize money involved in Coyote Contests and the guys I know who partake in them are not motivated by the money. The teams that win are skilled hunters and riflemen.

The prize money may work against appearances to the non-hunting public and photos of heaps of dead yotes do for sure.

Those would be reasons for us to work with those Sportsman on those specific issues, but it would be a big mistake to abandon them to fight this fight alone in a mis-guided notion it does not affect our fight. As is the case here the language in the Bill will bleed over into Birddog competitions. NSTRA and BDC type competitions can easily be presented in similar light in similar anti-hunting legislation.

FC, I am no fan of high fence deer operations. They are the cause of CWD entering my State and spreading into our wild deer herd. Whitetail deer are the most widely available to all, big game species on the planet. There are numerous events and opportunities for children and disabled persons to hunt free chase wild deer, leaving no excuse for their operation.

However, many bird dog enthusiasts live where there are no wild birds and thus continue to pursue our Sport by training and hunting released birds. So even this standard of whether the use of released game is a ethical is not as black and white as some might think it to be. A very large percentage of us utilize pigeons and pen raised quail, pheasants, chukars and ducks in our training.

I think we need to do what we can to police our own ranks, but I see evidence of these debates where too many Sportsman are willing to throw some segment of our Sport under the bus because they do not themselves pursue it. I think that behavior will be our downfall.

At the end of the day our Sport involves pursuing and killing animals. No amount of bobbing and weaving is going to hide that and when the advocacy of tactics is infighting within our ranks and telling others to stop their form of hunting we have lost the fight.

There is no form of what we love and cherish that is acceptable to the persons behind this legislation. We should never loose sight of that as we chart what our best actions and reactions are to it.

P.S. I love to Trap. Still do a little, Used to do alot. Great Sport.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby ryanr » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:02 pm

flitecontrol wrote:
ryanr wrote:Seriously? To try to draw some comparison between Comercial fishing and hunting or fishing contests is silly. Commercial fisherman are trying to earn an actual living, an annual salary. In a local hunting or fishing contest, no one is making a living off the occasional small amount of prize-money they may win from having the heaviest coyote or fish.


So tournament fishermen aren't earning a living from it? Call me silly, but according to this 2016 article, Kevin Van Dam has collected over $6.2 million in winnings since his first B.A.S.S. tournament in 1997. That's just his winnings, and doesn't include the thousands and thousands of dollars of freebies, including boats, vehicles, motors, gear, etc., from his sponsors. He's been fishing competitively for 19 years as of the article date, which averages over $326,000.00 per year. Not too shabby for "small amount of prize-money" fishing contests. With that much money at stake, it's hard to say contestants are just in it for the competition/camaraderie/sport. https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2017/07 ... w-24-wins/

Where there is money to be made, someone will try to stack the odds in their favor. Some time back, unscrupulous tournament contestants were buying or catching fish before the tournament and placing them in cages where they could retrieve them and claim they were caught during the tournament. Several major tournaments were won this way. A black market in large Florida bass developed. The scheme was exposed when an alert fisheries biologist recognized the fish as Florida strain bass, which weren't found in the lake where the tournament took place. Look here for more on this subject: https://www.wideopenspaces.com/cheaters ... ters-lost/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBYk7oEhcEg https://www.wired2fish.com/tournament-f ... ournament/

When money begins to be associated with a blood sport, participants focus less on the sport and more on the money. The more money to be made, the more the sport suffers, and IMO, the less the public will support that activity. All sportsmen need to examine their activities not just from a personal view, but also by how the general public sees them.


Oh c'mon, professional tournament fishing is quite a bit different than what the average amateur angler is doing, even an amateur who enters contests. Before I left for the US Navy I actually fished the amateur Bassmasters BASS circuit with my local Basmmasters chapter. We had contests at various lakes and there was prize money which was totally subject to how many of us entered, after costs to put on each tournament were paid of course. You also earned points towards trying to qualify for the state level tournament, etc. I did quite well and finished in the money numerous times (which meant top 3). Our payouts for the winner were often under $100. So yeah, even as a teenager living at home I wasn't making a living off that prize money.

I am very much in line with Average Guy's entire previous post on this.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby flitecontrol » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:39 pm

AverageGuy wrote:No one is breaking even on the prize money involved in Coyote Contests and the guys I know who partake in them are not motivated by the money. The teams that win are skilled hunters and riflemen.

The prize money may work against appearances to the non-hunting public and photos of heaps of dead yotes do for sure.

Those would be reasons for us to work with those Sportsman on those specific issues, but it would be a big mistake to abandon them to fight this fight alone in a mis-guided notion it does not affect our fight. As is the case here the language in the Bill will bleed over into Birddog competitions. NSTRA and BDC type competitions can easily be presented in similar light in similar anti-hunting legislation.

My response in blue. I'm not sure how the big money fishing tournaments got started, but imagine they started small. When it got to the point that significant prize money could be made is when it became so popular, including television coverage. Not sure how much money is involved with the bird hunting contests you mentioned, but have seen some events covered on the outdoor TV channels. I don't think there is any way that the competitive bird shooters or coyote contest hunters are going to significantly modify what they do because they don't see their activities through the public's viewfinder, and it's allowed under the law. The temptation to post what many in the public consider gory pictures, and therefore must originate from blood thirsty hunters, to social media seems overwhelming these days.

FC, I am no fan of high fence deer operations. They are the cause of CWD entering my State and spreading into our wild deer herd. Whitetail deer are the most widely available to all, big game species on the planet. There are numerous events and opportunities for children and disabled persons to hunt free chase wild deer, leaving no excuse for their operation. While I agree wholeheartedly with you, there are enough (lazy?) paying shooters to keep these operations in business. Looks like we are both willing to throw this segment of the blood sports under the bus.

However, many bird dog enthusiasts live where there are no wild birds and thus continue to pursue our Sport by training and hunting released birds. So even this standard of whether the use of released game is a ethical is not as black and white as some might think it to be. A very large percentage of us utilize pigeons and pen raised quail, pheasants, chukars and ducks in our training. I use birds in training as well, and will continue to do so. While I usually don't eat the pigeons, I do eat the quail used in training my dogs. I think such activities aren't going to offend the public's sentiments so long as they aren't viewed as morbid or sadistic.

I think we need to do what we can to police our own ranks, but I see evidence of these debates where too many Sportsman are willing to throw some segment of our Sport under the bus because they do not themselves pursue it. I think that behavior will be our downfall. But how do we go about policing our ranks? Don't we have to let others, such as the high fence shooters, know we don't think shooting penned animals is ethical, even though it's legal? And how do we do that without debate? Who decides what behavior is right or wrong? In the end, it comes down to individual choice, and history has shown some aren't going to choose wisely (at least in others' view). There are no easy, clear-cut answers to the issue. Simply saying we have to close ranks with everyone that shoots or hooks animals sounds good, but most folks like a say about who they sleep with

At the end of the day our Sport involves pursuing and killing animals. No amount of bobbing and weaving is going to hide that and when the advocacy of tactics is infighting within our ranks and telling others to stop their form of hunting we have lost the fight.

There is no form of what we love and cherish that is acceptable to the persons behind this legislation. Absolutely. We should never loose sight of that as we chart what our best actions and reactions are to it.

P.S. I love to Trap. Still do a little, Used to do alot. Great Sport.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby Kiger2 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 pm

Update,

The Bill was sent back to committee apparently to have all the language removed except the coyote competition ban. Hearing on that this week. So it looks like it does pay to sound off. Ill try and go to the hearing.
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Re: Bill Aimed at Coyote Contests Affects Us All

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:02 pm

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