Dusty The DL

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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:55 am

Lots of ways to go at this but maybe use smaller dummies than the standard ones. Mostly you might try trading a retrieve (initially toys) for a piece of kibble or, better yet, a 1/4 - 1/2" cube of cheese. Transition to dummies after he demonstrates (and knows) that bringing back whatever you throw will get him a reward. Only do it a few times in a row and then only a few times per day. Once ingrained you can remove the reward.

Parenthetically, I say "yes" whenever the dog starts back with the toy or dummy and then I produce the treat immediately. The dog learns that "yes" means he's going to get a treat and this becomes helpful whenever you're rewarding for a job well done. The "yes" marks the exact behavior you want the dog to remember as to what produced the reward. Waiting too long to say "yes" gets you all srots of crazy behaviors. If the dog "whoas" at a distance you say "yes" as soon as he stops even though the reward can come a minute later. Best to look at MIchael Ellis's introductory remarks to reward based training on the web.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby AverageGuy » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:53 am

Highlander,

In the past I used some of the approaches posted here relative to gun acclimation. With bold dogs it worked out fine. When you run into the wrong dog however it can be a problem. The Perfect Gun Acclimation DVD I recommended has an importantly different approach which I used on my last puppy and will use on any others to follow. It is a safer way and it produced an extremely positive association between gunfire and birds in my current pup.

Few subjects have as many harmful suggestions in the world of dog training as does gun acclimation in my observation. Perfection Kennel has a FB page where they have posted many live training sessions including numerous ones where they are working with gun acclimation on new dogs and dogs which have already been rendered gun shy. Free for the viewing.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:17 am

Bruce Schwartz

Thank you for the replay.
I did use a small canvas bumper with black and white wings on it. It's around 8" long and 2.5" wide. I have a bigger version of it too but have not used it yet.

I started using kibbels but I was holding it in my hand as she run to me, so eventually she started dropping the bumper 2 feet away and rushing into my fist to get the kibbel. Then I stopped giving her kibbels as I did not wont her to keep dropping a bumper before me.
This could be the root cause she stopped bringing the bumpers but not the toys.

I will incorporate "yes" in the training and will try to reword her with a kibble ones she brings her toy in right in my hand and than I'll try to switch back to bumpers.

I will look up MIchael Ellis's videos.


AverageGuy

The video you recommend is on my list and as soon as the holidays are done I'll get on that.
This is a piacular moment in gundog's life and I don't want to mess it up.

One question I have to you.
You made a feather bumper for Tess. How did it go?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23485&start=45

I have pheasant feathers and I was thinking to make a similar bumper but since Dusty has some retrieving issues maybe I need just wait until I fix that problem?
and once she gets it correct start transitioning to the feather?

Thank you.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:18 am

Highlander: they don't get the kibble until they've dropped the toy or bumper in your hand (and after the command "drop" or "give"). It might take a few times but if they drop it before they get to you then you should ignore them until they pick it up again and bring it all the way. If they drop it on the floor you should move back a few paces and give the fetch command and just stare at them until they realize what's needed to get the food. The kibble stays in your pocket or a small pouch around your neck so you aren't giving it until you get the desired response out of them. They are crafty so timing and being deliberate is important. Maybe go back through the toy routine and then move to dummy. It's a process.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:01 pm

Bruce Schwartz

Sir, your method has worked out well. She is still greedy with some bumpers and dead beards but eventually comes to me. Apparently her sister is just lake that too.
She started teething so from now on I'll keep retrieving lessons even shorter.
-------

Update
Things are moving quite fast. I am in a full mode of preparation.
After the New Year I started introduction her with wild bird and tracking... and gun shot

First I started with planted chukars. To my surprise they keep in the same spot thus allowing dog to be steady on point.
In the first search I let her to sniff a feather or two and then set her on search. She was charged and exited. She sniffed the bird form a distance, but moved towards it carelessly and bumped the bird.
Second time was a better search that ended up with a semi-point and flush. I was able to see where the bird landed and had her move to that direction. She found the bird, but got exited and flushed it and chased the bird.
This is was good lesson for her. Move = flush.
I took a tree days of brake.

Next session was a way way better.
I planted chukars and waited 30mn and let her to search... and she found and pointed right away.
From this point on she has pointed every bird she has found (except one bird because I brought her in downwind), has kept steady on point and let me kick out the bird. This when I shot the blank.22 and it went well.

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In this picture she had pointed this bird 5 minutes before and I flushed it. The bird flew into this spot and got stocked into the grass. I was able to pick up the bird over her point.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:20 pm

My next step was to bring a new bird, the bobwhite, in the equation and... it was a mistake in my expariance. The bird is won't hold as good as chukar, which makes it harder for a pup that started pointing a few days back. They wont stick around and fly away almost as soon as the pup smells the bird and is about to point. She was only able to find and pin two birds out of five birds.

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I will get back to the bobwhite when she has more developed point and she more ready to do long searches.
I don't wind her pointing to deteriorate like it happened with my Irish Setter when I used quails. I'll stick with chukars since they keep in the spot and naturally fly out well.
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Attidog » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:40 pm

Sounding good!
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:13 pm

Looking good. Forrest
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby SMAbby » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:01 pm

Nice
VC Max vom Schutzenknapp VJP 75, HZP190, VGP 303 PI 4H Nose, NA 112, UT 204 Invite 196
Baja vom Wamsbach VJP 64, HZP 169, NA 112
Anka vom Loofkamp VJP 66, HZP 139,HZP 172, NA 112
Krystal Creeks Untamed Spirit ( Abby) NA 93 Prize III UT 200 Prize II
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Re: Dusty The DL

Postby Highlander » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:10 pm

Dusty is getting bigger and is advancing well.
I have signed her up for a VJP in late Aprille in Wisconsin.
I am preparing her almost everyday, except the time I had her resting for a health related issue, but I'll write about it later.
So far the search and pointing is becoming really good. She has increased the distance between the point and the bird.
She keeps safely away from the bird but enough to hold them pinned. So far she has never broken the point.

DUSTY_1.jpg
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I have used a tame rabbit for tracking and a scent drag. So far so good. She still keeps quartering on scent if I don't keep her on leash, but it's slowly getting better.
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