Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

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Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Dmog » Sat May 25, 2019 9:18 pm

EE9CB3FD-1314-4FC8-B981-0CEFC30DE6BC.jpeg
Rock Creek Zane ran NA today at MOKAN chapter and received a prize 1 with 110 score! Lost a point in track.
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby JTracyII » Sun May 26, 2019 10:33 pm

Congratulations to you and your dog! Glad you had a judge that was willing to give you a 4 in cooperation despite getting less than a 4 in track. Some judges won’t do that for some reason. Good work. Plan to take it to the next level?
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Dmog » Mon May 27, 2019 8:08 am

We had a great set of Judges that were handicapped with a very wet field and uncooperative birds! MOKAN did a great job adapting to the conditions given. I had to run the track 3 times and I felt the judges were very fair with Dash and myself and you are right, usually you get an automatic 3 in cooperation but I think the circumstances weighed in Dash’s favor to upgrade to a 4. They were using hen pheasants for the track and the first bird wouldn’t cooperate and turned into the wind and they decided to get another bird before we went into the field. Field Marshal told me this as I was waiting. They moved down I would guess 20 yards or so. Upon the release Dash immediately took a right when it was apparent she should have tracked more straight downwind or cross wind to the left. I of course thought well there goes her score in track unless she comes back pretty soon. She then worked the upwind scent on the previous bird and found and pointed it. Judges had me leash her and go back out of sight so they could release another bird. This one turned upwind also but the judges appeared to believe it turned crosswind and ran. Upon the release, Dash caught the scent in the wind and would go 5 yards and point. We would wait and she would go another 5 yards and point but to the opposite direction the judges aligned us at start. She eventually found and point and caught this pheasant but it wasn’t much of a track, more of a search. Judges ask me to go over to an area away as they huddled. I knew Dash did great but it wasn’t a track so I was pretty sure they were going to run us again on a new bird. This time they moved about 40 yards away and across a little shrub break and this pheasant cooperated cross wind. Dash started off good and then got off track and started searching, I thought it was forever before she came back onto the track and pick up the scent. Once she picked up the scent she worked it back the wrong direction about 5 feet and then turned and took the scent to the bird and pointed it. So I was happy to get a 3 and was glad the judges didn’t apply the cooperation automatic deduction that many do.

I plan to work on whoa and steadiness now. Retrieving is sound at this point. None of it to the UT level. I do not believe I will do the UT. We plan to get ready to hunt and after waiting all day to run a NA dog last because she was in heat, kinda took the wind out of my sails for future testing and UT is just going to be more hurry up and wait. As you can tell, I probably dont have the patience to UT train anyway!
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby flitecontrol » Mon May 27, 2019 8:19 am

Congratulations. It's my understanding that all dogs basically begin with a perfect score, and performance (on test day) affects the final score. If some judges "automatically" deduct a point in cooperation, without a valid reason, the judges are wrong IMO. Also, I thought the pheasant was supposed to run downwind, not crosswind, when released, which is a more challenging track and better reflection of the dog's abilities.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby orhunter » Mon May 27, 2019 8:59 am

Sounds like dog did extremely well considering the conditions. Some judges would have given a 4 for what your dog did. They are a fickle bunch.

When I did the handlers clinic three weeks ago they talked about hen vs rooster and said it made no difference. I don’t think it’s quite as absolute as they say it is. I’ve seen the difference and it was remarkable. It may not make a difference at a fall test but it sure does in the spring.

As far as wind direction, I think a cross wind is preferred. They want to see a dog track without putting its nose to the ground. But like I said, they’re a fickle bunch.
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Dmog » Mon May 27, 2019 9:11 am

flitecontrol wrote:Also, I thought the pheasant was supposed to run downwind, not crosswind, when released, which is a more challenging track and better reflection of the dog's abilities.

Thanks. I will attest that the 4 judges were certainly trying to get the pheasant to run down wind...and I would have preferred downwind because she would focus better when tracking downwind. I was last dog in a very limited tracking area that I am sure was full of scent and still had birds in it. Not to mention the shifting wind from SE to SW, we dealt with what was given us and thanks to judges fairness and her ability to find birds(maybe not the one we wanted but she was sent 3 times and retrieved to hand 3 pheasants), I was happy with the outcome. I was told in a handlers clinic once that cooperation was usually ding also on track since you sent the dog on a track and she went searching elsewhere.
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby flitecontrol » Mon May 27, 2019 1:25 pm

orhunter wrote: I think a cross wind is preferred. They want to see a dog track without putting its nose to the ground.


Not sure what NAVDA's guidelines are on the pheasant track, but in the WPGCA tests I either ran a dog in or observed, the pheasant was consistently hazed out of sight downwind. That's what their guidelines called for.

As for wanting to see a dog track without putting its nose to the ground, if true, that's flat out wrong, and an indication that NAVDA is loosing touch with its roots. Versatiles dogs are expected to find game when sent to retrieve. How the dog accomplishes this isn't important. Sounds as if judges with field trial backgrounds may be trying to interject "style points" into the tests. Next thing will be docking a dog's score if it doesn't hold its head and tail high while on point. :crazyeyes:
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby AverageGuy » Mon May 27, 2019 2:27 pm

flitecontrol wrote:
orhunter wrote: I think a cross wind is preferred. They want to see a dog track without putting its nose to the ground.


Not sure what NAVDA's guidelines are on the pheasant track, but in the WPGCA tests I either ran a dog in or observed, the pheasant was consistently hazed out of sight downwind. That's what their guidelines called for.

As for wanting to see a dog track without putting its nose to the ground, if true, that's flat out wrong, and an indication that NAVDA is loosing touch with its roots. Versatiles dogs are expected to find game when sent to retrieve. How the dog accomplishes this isn't important. Sounds as if judges with field trial backgrounds may be trying to interject "style points" into the tests. Next thing will be docking a dog's score if it doesn't hold its head and tail high while on point. :crazyeyes:


Fear not FC,

I reread the AIMS document which describes each component of each NAVHDA test and verified it specifically says the style the dog uses when tracking will vary and does not matter as long as the dog is applying itself to tracking the released game. That would not say the dog can just go off searching , but it specifically says some dogs will track nose to the ground and some will not and it does not matter and is not supposed to affect the score as to which style the dog uses when tracking. See pages 12 and 13.

https://www.navhda.org/files/assets/testrule-2-2014.pdf
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby flitecontrol » Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 pm

That's reassuring to hear.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Sooty42 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:50 pm

I don’t see why doing poorly on the track would effect cooperation, especially if they were cooperative on other aspects of the test. I could understand if the dog just ran off and gave no effort to do anything where the pheasant was released. But if they go into a search for the pheasant they are still being cooperative, this is a NA test so they shouldn’t be expected to obey a command to track, right?
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Don » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:45 am

Average guy has it right. Go to the NAVHDA website and read the "aims and rules " part. It will explain the test and hopefully end all the bad answers you are getting. The "fickle" judges ran three birds in an effort to get the best score possible for your pup.
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Re: Rock Creek Zane NA Prize 1

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:07 pm

Congratulations, good looking pup. Forrest
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