Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Pointer and setter breed specific questions. Kennel information requests, etc.

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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby johnnycake » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:06 pm

bhennessy wrote:
johnnycake wrote:There are a few WPGs in our NAVHDA chapter and I've yet to see one that impressed me in the water, and very few of them have much drive in the field either. Plus, the long coats on WPGs tend to hold the water in more, taking longer to dry. This leads to a cold dog pretty quick when temps are low.

All depends on the kennel I’ve come to believe. These wiry v-dogs are all much more similar than they are different, assuming a great breeding program. Look at Stonyridge griffs - tighter coats that don’t collect burrs, mine’s a monster in the water, has great pointing and retrieve instinct and is super sharp on anything wearing fur besides other dogs. We don’t have any cats so maybe he’d be different if he’d been around one from day one.

That said, I’ve got a pudelpointer in my future as soon as I can convince the smarter half that three V-mutts is are what we need.

We've got about ~15 active WPGs in our chapter right now, and at least one is from Stonyridge I believe, and I know several are from Hun Hill. Besides these dogs, I hunted with or visited with more than 30 other WPGS as I was looking for my dog (my process took 5 years of pretty obsessive researching before I found and decided on a PP). They are definitely good versatile dogs, but I still stand by my statements. While there are definitely outliers at both end of the spectrum as far as field or water drive, the most driven WPG in the field I've seen was still less driven than the upper 10-20% of PPs I've seen. And when I switch to water comparisons, the best WPG I've seen I would place below average for water drive if it were a PP. But the WPGs seem to me to be a bit better/easier to train for house/blind manners than PPs. I think the WPGs I've seen training/working blood/tracking/drags take to it easier than PPs--not necessarily because I think one breed has a better nose than the other, but more because I thing WPGs tend to be more methodical and concentrate on the track better, whereas PPs lack some of that patience and want to break into a search pattern more readily. All things that can be worked through.

And in the interest of "fairness" I would say that the "best" PP i've seen work a field might match the top 10% of DDs or GSPs--but those positions are flipped in the PP's favor in the water. PPs IMO are the most water driven of the versatile breeds. But these are all just my anecdotal opinions. These breeds are all pretty close, but do still have their differences.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Stretch » Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:43 pm

This year at 14-15 months out worked a lab and a gwp
Here my Griff is at 5 months old ice just off.
I wouldn’t trade my WPG for any dog. Just as good in the house as in the field.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Dmog » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:17 pm

Get one of each! I did and I wouldn’t trade either one of them! For each belief you will get a counter which goes to prove it is more individual dog than breed. Good breeder is the most important! By the way, my Griff out performs my PP in the water in natural ability 6 days out of seven! He dives under to grab stuff and will tred water next to me when I fish in waders...PP is bird crazy, put a bird out there in the water and she will put more effort in to get it, unfortunately she is not as efficient in the water at it yet.

My Griff has the longer coat that is dense on the body and the PP has a med length flat lying wire coat. The Griff's coat along with his muscle mass keeps him warm and he drys off fast, much faster than the PP's coat. Keep in mind though that the male Griff is 70 lbs and generates alot of heat where the female PP is only 45lbs. I love my PP's coat but I am 75% upland and 25% waterfowl(and half of that is hunting in crop fields). My Griff's coat is ideal for waterfowl but is soft enough to collect burrs on the feet, legs, and face. He has minimal shedding. My PP's coat is ideal for upland and is good for waterfowl. Her coat appears not to shed at all to my eyes, but my wife says she does but it is very negligible(my wife is a neat freak). My Griff thrives in temperature below 50 deg F, fades fast without a body of water in temps above 60 deg F. My PP appears to have a much higher heat tolerance but I have not had her in her adult coat through a Kansas summer yet to give a fair comparison.

Are far as cats go...well both dogs will try and kill them. However, a one on one in-counter Griff vs Tom, the Tom will but enough doubt into the Griff to get away. The PP most likely will bust through the cat's defense to kill it. The Griff could be raised with a cat and be fine, no doubt. I think the PP could also but their is some doubt in my mind. The PP wants to please so I think a diligent/owner trainer could make it reliable life harmony. I use Skunk encounters as an example. Both dogs have had 2 or more skunk encounters. The Griff got sprayed once in the face. He now gives skunks enough room to not get directly sprayed. The PP has been sprayed twice now!

Training pressure is also quite different in my two dogs. I use the same brand and style training collar on each and the sensitivity setting on a scale of 1 through 8 for my Griff is a 2. A 3 and he cries like he has really been hurt. My PP initially had to be a 7 and we are now at a 6.
You never have to tell a dog what time to be home, give them the keys, and they never ask for money.
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Re: Pudelpointer or WPG for duck hunting

Postby Just-a-bird-hunter » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:21 pm

As for the cats: I've had cats around ALL my dogs, as I don't want them killing cats. The breeds have had? PP, Cesky Fousek, Shorthair/Lab cross, Setters and Spaniels; it seemed to help with all the dogs NOT going after Porcupines as they seem to equate Porky with a cat that doesn't run. That being said, running into a WILD cat that attacks your dog, they'll drop the dishes and respond!
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