To breed? Or not to Breed? want your opinions

Genetics, breeding, birth defects, diseases, etc. (No litter listings)

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TO BREED, OR NOT TO BREED

Poll ended at Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:57 pm

would breed/buy pup/sire the pups
1
13%
would not breed/buy/sire the pups
7
88%
 
Total votes : 8

Postby Blue Weim Mom » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:02 am

Wow! I didn't start this thread to make others angry. Please understand, I want to create a PROVEN dog. If for nothing than the sake to enjoy the fun and challenge of it. My girl (if you could see her reactions) LIVES for the field work. Just yesterday we went out for birds. Each time we'd pull the truck off the main road, she'd begin to make sounds of excitement. Then as soon as she would see the truck in front of us pull into the field, she was practically uncontainable with excitement. She did well even if the weather(30-45 mph winds and gusts) made it harder. She was determined not to let one spot unchecked.
This is why I want to look at the potential breeding. And as far as having "a bad head?" I don't understand that. Every breed has a personality akwardness, or problem. And that is just part of what you come to live with, overcome, or adapt to. Whether the dog is, long-haired, short-haired, wired, or silky. Appearance can be "beautified" by simple grooming.

THANKS - DK for your most recent comments
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Postby anne » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:23 pm

Blue Weim Mom,

I am so glad to hear you are going to pursue this in a responsible manner. I am so sick of Blues being bred indiscrimantly.

I think VersatileRookie meant that Weims, especially as a hunting dog, have suffered due to its good looks. Too many Blue Weim breeders are even worse about this breeding for color alone and then selling them as "rare." We might be a little better off if these dogs were ugly, I personally know many people who have gotten a Weim based solely on looks and didn't even know they were hunting dogs and completely unprepared for the type of dog they are.

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Postby VersatileRookie » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:30 pm

When I referred to the problems of Wiems, I wasnt attacking the breed. It would be nice to see and hear more of them in the fields and tests. What are Wiems primarily used for in the U.S.A? Im not sure, but Ive seen more of them on T.V. prancing around a show ring, than in hunting videos or in the field.

IMO the other versatiles don't get the respect of the show people. And folks that don't care for dogs would probably say they are ugly ( DD, PP, WPG, GWP, GSP ).

Sorry for wording my last post in a confusing manner.

I dont care if folks are hunting muts, as long as they're hunting. I would never attack a breed or individual dog. Unless they attacked me first 8) .

DK Dreams maybe you should check out my post in the first General section.

BWM, Keep up the good work. Sounds like she is shaping up to become a Worthy Specimen.

Glad to see someone else can think outside the box. Thanks Anne.
Dog Breeding should be done by folks that are knowledgable and have Worthy Specimens
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To Breed

Postby bill10979 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:17 pm

Lets face it, the beauty of the Weim and the good demeanor has killed the breed-the original breed that could hunt(By and Large) If 1%-if that-are actually used to hunt, thats very sad. I wonder if perhaps the Blue Weims, which arent recognized by the AKC can help to restore the hunting Weim? Just a thought. Why I mentioned Navhda and that registry earlier. Its a step in the right direction, if the breed gets back to its roots.

I know what Rookie was saying-the "Ugly Breeds" havent been exploited and ruined by the show and indiscriminate breeders. I have no problem calling the DDs ugly. They are IMO, although I get compliments all the time on the good looks. I didnt get em for that reason, but to hunt. Put it this way, I wouldnt own one if they didnt hunt. Lots of "prettier" dogs out there! But damn, can they hunt!

I looked at Weims before DDs and by golly, couldnt find one-and thats combing through magazines, internt etc. ALl I could find were trial Weims that didnt suit my style of hunting and so I basically gave up. They are a most spectacular dog if I say so myself. Keep em Versatile!
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Postby Blue Weim Mom » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:32 pm

Now if any of you would like to explain.....
I know that in trials horses are used. I understand that, and I know the reasons behind that. I gathered from conversations that some trialing is also on foot? I ask simply because I know the difference from trials vs tests BUT if some trials are on foot.... How is that classified as trial, and not test? NAVHDA combines all into one. I get that. It's all on foot. This we've started doing these tests. I have no interest in trials on horse back. As the whole horse thing is undesireable to me personally. Thanks for making it clear for me. And Bill - you are right, weims originally were big game hunters, now we use them for birds. That is very different from their roots.
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Postby DK dreams » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:50 pm

There are quit a few kennels in Europe that have excellent hunting Weims. If your interested I can send you their web addresses.
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Postby anne » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:36 pm

There are kennels in the US that have great dogs for foot hunting too. In fact, I truly believe its a fallacy that trial dogs can't also be good foot hunting dogs. The good ones will shorten up. I know my FC will.

BWM -

The difference between trials and tests are that in trials you are competing against the other dogs. Yes there are walking trials, and you always have the option of NOT riding a horse in a horse trial. Tests, like NAVHDA or AKC hunt tests are scored against a standard, all the dogs entred in a particular day can pass. You aren't competing against each other.

Also I think you should go to a few trials because many good Weims are there. If you ask me, most Weims (including show dogs) have decent point, great retrieves, but where they are lacking is in drive. And I have seen many Weims that have gotten thru hunt tests with poor drive. You would never see that at a field trial. Don't get confused like many of the show people - field trials aren't just about range and "running into the next county." There aren't any true all age Weims anyway. Just don't exist.

The elite of the elite can do it all, just look at Judy Balog's Gunnar. He was a FC, AFC and a show Ch and also the one and only NAVHDA VC, as well as a MH. That tells you a lot. There are many FCs that also have MHs. Don't assume that just because a dog knows to range further out on horseback that they are incapable of being a good foot hunting dog.

Bill,

The AKC does recognize the Blues. It's a disqualifying fault in the show ring, but they are allowed in any performance event.

I'd also fathom a guess that the DDs, at least the ones I've seen, have a lot more drive than most Weims except for trial Weims and a few that are companion hunting dogs.

Unfortunately, as you intimate, there is a problem in the breed as a whole not valuing the hunting instincts and with show breeders taking the dogs looks to an extreme and not giving one hoot about field ability. I have seen more than my share of show breeders claiming great field ability with only a JH.

You might be interested in seeing an article on Weims that was in a show publication called Dog News. Judy and some others were interviewed for a Weim article that is supposed to come out in Gun Dog next year, and they re-used some of the material for the Dog News article. It's not exacly complimentary to the show folks, even tho it appeared in a show magazine.

www.weim.net/riley/dognews.htm (From here, links to a 5MB pdf file)

And one more thing BWM.... Remember, the first Blue Weim was a German import and valued for his hunting ability. He was from a good line of German dogs. Yes Blues have gone downhill over the past 30 years, but the correct heritage and ability is back there.

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Postby Blue Weim Mom » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:59 pm

:D :D
Anne, thanks for the clarifications on trial vs test.
And I didn't know that the first weim to the U.S. was blue.... HMMM :roll:

You have my email - Let me know when that article will be. Because I will be pacing to the mailbox for that issue...Thank goodness I already have a subsription!
Some say, diamonds. But, I say my dog is my best friend!
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Postby anne » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:23 pm

Oops! No the first Weim to the US wasn't Blue. However the first Blue Weim in the US was from Germany.

Casar (the first Blue Weim)'s dam was behind the Weims that were the foundation for the American Weims though. Most Gray Weims have Blue in their pedigree if you go back far enough.
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