Need some help

Pointing, retrieving, flushing, tracking, behavioral issues, puppy training, etc.

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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:51 pm

Pup is doing better and I have been figuring him out slowly, ( trying to bond and instill proper behavior for my household is a chore!) at times I feel like all I do is correct him and use NO alot. He is not food motivated and I have turned a tennis ball into something rewarding to him by making a big deal of it when I let him play with it and have him watch me put it away when were done.
I am struggling with the crate anxiety in the house, crated in the truck he doesn't get anxious at all, no fussing, drooling, etc. I have crated him in the truck in the yard and made it so he could watch me walk away into the house and he could care less but if I put him in the crate in the house whether I am there or not he goes into a state of anxiety and loses it in the matter of minutes. Does this sound like separation anxiety or possibly a case of the previous owner using the crate for punishment in the home? And how do I get him over this?
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Re: Need some help

Postby ANick » Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:22 pm

Sounds to me like the punishment theory is on the mark.

I don't think it's one of those things you can force, if he's going into panic mode. If you can get him used to going in.. and then laying down with the door open.. maybe laying next to the crate watching the tube.. with the door open. Work toward the door being more closed.. and eventually latched. But open it before you walk off. Progress to very short periods.. as in out of the room and back.. with the door closed.

When you open the door, make him wait for a release to come out. No rushing it.

I suspect it'll take a while to ease that box out of the realm of monsters.. but maybe?

Nick
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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:30 am

ANick wrote:Sounds to me like the punishment theory is on the mark.

I don't think it's one of those things you can force, if he's going into panic mode. If you can get him used to going in.. and then laying down with the door open.. maybe laying next to the crate watching the tube.. with the door open. Work toward the door being more closed.. and eventually latched. But open it before you walk off. Progress to very short periods.. as in out of the room and back.. with the door closed.

When you open the door, make him wait for a release to come out. No rushing it.

I suspect it'll take a while to ease that box out of the realm of monsters.. but maybe?

Nick


Good ideas ! I will definitely put in the time with this, going to see if I can leave him crated in the truck until I get the crate in the house straightened out as it does me no good to put him in there and leave for work while hes freaked out. He will do an in and out of the crate on his own but when he thinks he's going to be put in there all bets are off.
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Re: Need some help

Postby ANick » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:46 pm

PPgundogs wrote:
ANick wrote:Sounds to me like the punishment theory is on the mark.

I don't think it's one of those things you can force, if he's going into panic mode. If you can get him used to going in.. and then laying down with the door open.. maybe laying next to the crate watching the tube.. with the door open. Work toward the door being more closed.. and eventually latched. But open it before you walk off. Progress to very short periods.. as in out of the room and back.. with the door closed.

When you open the door, make him wait for a release to come out. No rushing it.

I suspect it'll take a while to ease that box out of the realm of monsters.. but maybe?

Nick


Good ideas ! I will definitely put in the time with this, going to see if I can leave him crated in the truck until I get the crate in the house straightened out as it does me no good to put him in there and leave for work while hes freaked out. He will do an in and out of the crate on his own but when he thinks he's going to be put in there all bets are off.


If he'll go in and out on his own, it sounds less like a punishment crate.. more like separation anxiety?? Not sure I'd use a different approach though.
Have you tried putting him where he could watch the TV while crated? Wondering if that would offer a diversion .. anything at this point for a chance of 'relax'.. Maybe.

Should get someone that knows something in here soon?? :)
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Re: Need some help

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:54 pm

ANick wrote:
Should get someone that knows something in here soon?? :)


Actually you're doing great.

Interesting issue and I admire PPgundogs for taking it on.
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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:13 pm

So a little update on what I have learned and done with my science project.
This young dog is hell on wheels in the field :D I have not worked him on planted birds only wild birds which he has been in the wrong place wrong time ( grouse will not wait around) He needs experience and taught objectives and to stay forward but that should be a piece of cake. As mentioned in my other post I have been using a tennis ball for reward and he has strong retrieve instinct. Which leads me back to the house/crate situation, he likes to jump on everything so I thought I would make a game out of getting him in and out of the crate. So I put the wire crate up on saw horses and put a chair for him to jump on then into crate, at first I just got him jumping on the chair and off then I moved to into the crate which was a breeze! He is now going up in there for treats, dinner and his ball.
However its only a few minutes before he starts getting anxious so Ive kept that to a minimum. Crating in the truck is not an issue at all( its my go to when I need a break) and I even took him with us duck hunting where he stayed behind and watched us leave with my older dog and he didnt make a sound. So were making progress, baby steps! I sure would like to know what or why this dog is reacting to the crate in the house like he is??
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Re: Need some help

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:07 pm

Just a thought...I'm no expert on using crates in house as I don't use them (three dogs, two cats, two people all co-habitating). It is nice to have a place (mud room e.g.) to contain them while we're out or to keep mud from being tracked in all the time. Separation anxiety can be rough and hard to quell?
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Re: Need some help

Postby flitecontrol » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:13 pm

When the dog is in the crate in the truck, try covering the crate with a sheet or something else he can't see through. Transition to doing the same in the house. Might help his anxiety to turn on a radio (talk station?) so it sounds like someone is there.
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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Re: Need some help

Postby ANick » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:38 am

flitecontrol wrote:When the dog is in the crate in the truck, try covering the crate with a sheet or something else he can't see through. Transition to doing the same in the house. Might help his anxiety to turn on a radio (talk station?) so it sounds like someone is there.


Flite,
The radio trick is similar to the TV mentioned. Back a decade or so ago, the general thought was that dogs couldn't see the TV screen, and for the old Cathode Ray Tubes, challenges to that were light and few. However, with the flatscreens of today I've little doubt the pups are watching it. Friends have a classic shot of their pup of a few months old, sitting square in front and raptly watching, "Perfect Start". Whatever works for the distraction though Maybe a scale model train set doing laps?? :)

PP,
This might be another 'reach' items. But thinking about the learning association of the crate in the house vs the crate in the truck, have you tried the crate in a different room? I'm a little dubious that an association with the crate in the living room wouldn't be the same as the crate in the kitchen.. the association being keyed more in an 'inside the house' rather than a specific room. But maybe not?

Working the crate into 'the learning game', sounds like there's good potential. Keep it coming.. and like Bruce said, Props for taking this one on. :)
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Re: Need some help

Postby JONOV » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:22 pm

Separation Anxiety. I had a GSP in for awhile that would sleep quietly through the nite in a crate in a room across the hall from mine. If I left? He went to pieces and destroyed everything. I had luck with meds. The worst case I was able to wean off meds and leave alone for half a day at a time, but he never got to liking the crate.

The second worse case I never let out of the crate when I wasn't home, but his current owner leaves him alone and uncrated with no problems. He has two other dogs though.

Do you have an Arlo, Nest, or other camera you can monitor the dog with if you leave? You might do better not crating him when you're gone. Not a popular answer around here, but if the dog is more relaxed and isn't breaking his teeth off or licking his paws til they bleed, who cares?
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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:36 pm

JONOV wrote:Separation Anxiety. I had a GSP in for awhile that would sleep quietly through the nite in a crate in a room across the hall from mine. If I left? He went to pieces and destroyed everything. I had luck with meds. The worst case I was able to wean off meds and leave alone for half a day at a time, but he never got to liking the crate.

The second worse case I never let out of the crate when I wasn't home, but his current owner leaves him alone and uncrated with no problems. He has two other dogs though.

Do you have an Arlo, Nest, or other camera you can monitor the dog with if you leave? You might do better not crating him when you're gone. Not a popular answer around here, but if the dog is more relaxed and isn't breaking his teeth off or licking his paws til they bleed, who cares?


I do not have a camera in the house and in no way shape or form is he ready to be let loose in the house. He has beat up his nose on the wire crate and was getting out of plastic crates. I have been putting him in the crate for briefs periods of time and the drooling has ceased, he does fuss but I have not heard him beating on the crate trying to get out. Troublesome part for me is this seems to only be a problem crated in the house.
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Re: Need some help

Postby Bruce Schwartz » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:16 pm

I presume you've asked the previous owners what went wrong while he was under their care?
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Re: Need some help

Postby Drahthaar1108 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:45 pm

Get a underground fence for your yard, then he can be outside while you are at work , not in JAIL in the crate. Forrest
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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:40 pm

Bruce Schwartz wrote:I presume you've asked the previous owners what went wrong while he was under their care?


HAHA previous owners gave a line of BS on how he was crate trained, etc. Crate trained alright, trained himself how to get out I think is what they meant :lol:
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Re: Need some help

Postby PPgundogs » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Drahthaar1108 wrote:Get a underground fence for your yard, then he can be outside while you are at work , not in JAIL in the crate. Forrest

I have one but not really comfortable with that idea. Worried about Porcupine,skunks, coyote, etc coming in the yard as we live in the woods.
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