Canine DCM and food

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Canine DCM and food

Postby bhennessy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:15 pm

At the risk of reigniting the great food wars, Newsweek reports that the FDA has identified a possible link between an enlarged heart condition in dogs called canine dialated cardimyopathy and food containing peas, lentils or other legumes, or potatoes. Don’t know what I’d do with this info if proplan 30/20 had any of these ingredients, but it looks like it doesn’t. FYI I suppose.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:22 pm

This is real. Numoconfirmed cases reported by general practitioners checking at risk patients after the first report was published.

Pro Plan should be safe.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Doc E » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:54 am

Very interesting,
BUT, will they check into all of the chemicals used on potatoes -- fungicides, insecticides, anti-rot, bruised spuds or good spuds -- and the list goes on.
So, is it the spuds or is it one or more chemicals used on spuds ?

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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby bhennessy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:46 pm

I didn’t realize that dog food was under the FDA’s purview. The industry sort of seems like the Wild West in terms of brands, testing/no testing, different formulas and formulations, you name it and it seems that there is a company that churns it out to satisfy the latest fad.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby JONOV » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:10 pm

bhennessy wrote:I didn’t realize that dog food was under the FDA’s purview. The industry sort of seems like the Wild West in terms of brands, testing/no testing, different formulas and formulations, you name it and it seems that there is a company that churns it out to satisfy the latest fad.

I think that they are more concerned with making sure that your factories comply with their minimum quality standards. Whether or not you source your protein from peas or goats, makes no difference, as long as you're safe from a food science perspective.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Dakotazeb » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:22 pm

Here the statement. https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm

Very inconclusive to me and put out well before there is any solid information. I really don't put much stock in the report at this point. I've never been one to think much of grain-free dog food but now since I have an allergy dog that is what I've been feeding. Not sure grains are the issue with my dog as the protein source can be as big a allergy causing source. From what the report indicates, it appears to be a bigger issue mainly in larger dogs. I would think that there are a lot of other factors that could contribute to canine heart disease than potatoes and legumes. How about canine obesity?
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:05 am

Dakotazeb wrote:Here the statement. https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm

Very inconclusive to me and put out well before there is any solid information. I really don't put much stock in the report at this point. I've never been one to think much of grain-free dog food but now since I have an allergy dog that is what I've been feeding. Not sure grains are the issue with my dog as the protein source can be as big a allergy causing source. From what the report indicates, it appears to be a bigger issue mainly in larger dogs. I would think that there are a lot of other factors that could contribute to canine heart disease than potatoes and legumes. How about canine obesity?


This is a very specific heart disease type caused by taurine deficiency. It’s absolutely dietary.

Obesity doesn’t cause heart disease in dogs - they don’t have the arterial thickening and other secondary cardiovascular side effects that people do.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby JONOV » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:16 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:
Dakotazeb wrote:Here the statement. https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Ne ... 613305.htm

Very inconclusive to me and put out well before there is any solid information. I really don't put much stock in the report at this point. I've never been one to think much of grain-free dog food but now since I have an allergy dog that is what I've been feeding. Not sure grains are the issue with my dog as the protein source can be as big a allergy causing source. From what the report indicates, it appears to be a bigger issue mainly in larger dogs. I would think that there are a lot of other factors that could contribute to canine heart disease than potatoes and legumes. How about canine obesity?


This is a very specific heart disease type caused by taurine deficiency. It’s absolutely dietary.

Obesity doesn’t cause heart disease in dogs - they don’t have the arterial thickening and other secondary cardiovascular side effects that people do.

MissiK, doesn't taurine come from meat? Do you know if there is something common in grain free foods that would inhibit taurine absorption or is it the meat-to-taters/legumes ratio?
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Sooty42 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:28 am

It says the issue is with legumes or potatoes are a main ingredient.
Is main ingredient condsidered first five ingredients? First ten ingredients?

If taurine is the issue, then are you ok if the food has taurine as a supplement even if there is some potato and peas in the food?
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Dakotazeb » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:53 am

Misskiwi67 wrote:This is a very specific heart disease type caused by taurine deficiency. It’s absolutely dietary.


In reading about taurine deficiency I don't see where potatoes and legumes have anything to do with taurine deficiency. Can you explain? Taurine deficiency appears to be caused by the lack of an amino acid critical to a dogs health.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby JONOV » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:00 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
Misskiwi67 wrote:This is a very specific heart disease type caused by taurine deficiency. It’s absolutely dietary.


In reading about taurine deficiency I don't see where potatoes and legumes have anything to do with taurine deficiency. Can you explain? Taurine deficiency appears to be caused by the lack of an amino acid critical to a dogs health.

I think Taurine comes from meat. Legumes (soy, peas, lentils) are often added to grain free foods to boost the protein %. So, if there isn't enough meat to deliver the taurine, the deficiency comes from the lack of meat as opposed to the presence of potatoes or legumes. Maybe.
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Dakotazeb » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:46 pm

From what I have been able to ascertain it would appear that the only reason potatoes and legumes would be an issue is if they are the main ingredient in the food, or are more present than a quality meat source. Meats and fish contain taurine so if your dog is getting a good quality dog food with meat as the main ingredient and protein source there is probably nothing to worry about even if it does contain potatoes and/or legumes. From what I've found out most quality dog foods also contain taurine as a supplement. My guess is that the problem would be with those feeding grain-free, organic or holistic diets contain small amounts of meat. I can just see some vegetarian thinking they are doing their pet good by not feeding meat. :?:
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby orhunter » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Dakotazeb: Logic has no place in an illogical discussion. You may have gotten the final word?
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby Misskiwi67 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:54 pm

I emailed a nutritionist- here’s the scoop.

I was wondering if you could comment on the grain free diets and cardiomyopathy topic? Are there any recent updates?

Response from our Nutritionist for educational purposes only:
It is most likely due to a decrease in digestibility (due to the fiber content) of the foods used in place of the grain, this in turns, decreases some or all of the nutrients the dog needs to make taurine - because there is no taurine in grain but these dogs get better with only taurine addition. Nutritionists have been putting taurine in vegetarian diets and high fiber diets for decades, so it looks like the grain free fad has revealed which companies do not consult with nutritionist.

Respectfully,
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Re: Canine DCM and food

Postby flitecontrol » Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:30 pm

I can follow their logic:

Fifi is one of the family. We're all healthy vegetarians, so for Fifi to be healthy, she needs a purely vegetarian diet too.

Sheeeech. :oops:
I've had several really good dogs, but none were perfect. Neither am I, so keep that in mind!
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