Utility Duck Search Question

[ebswirehair]

I have a 4 year old wirehair that I have ran once in a NAVHDA UT test. She recieved a Prize III. She would have recieved a Prize I if it wasn't for her Duck Search.
So here is the question. Any ideas on how to extend her to reach across larger open water? Her intitial reaction is to always skirt/search the edges right or left istead of going directly across the open water and searching the oposite shore. She loves the marsh and does great on open water retreives even up to 100 yards, but when I release her for a "blind" duck search, she will not cross the open water. Any ideas would be much appreciated. I have another UT test the first week of September, and would love to pass with a Prize I!

[Steven]

I'm training for my first UT test so by no means an authority, but to start the discussion and maybe get some more experienced guys to comment . . . . . if you have done FF and done Force to pile, follow the progression along until you can send her to a pile across the water. Start out across short water and gradually lengthen the distance. Send her just the same on her duck search.

Another idea . . . . when you are training on the duck search, make sure it's the far shore where she always finds the ducks. At first, maybe send her into the wind so the scent will pull her across.

I'm sure others will have some better ideas for you.

[orhunter]

Every time you send the dog, you have to have a duck for the dog to find. The duck is always where you want the dog to go, not where the dog wants to go. Might work on blind retrieves too.

Try to find a place to train where the duck cover is across the water on the far side so the dog has nothing to search on the near shore.

Work on hand signals. The dog goes the direction it is sent and nowhere else.

Something I saw at a training seminar put on by the Vetters was to set up a triangle with cones, with the prize at the small end of the triangle. Sort of a forcing to a pile thing. The cones are a visual border that the dog relates to as a means to finding the prize. If the dog ventures outside the cones, it gets volts. A parallel course could be set up too.

[DK dreams]

Something I saw at a training seminar put on by the Vetters was to set up a triangle with cones, with the prize at the small end of the triangle. Sort of a forcing to a pile thing. The cones are a visual border that the dog relates to as a means to finding the prize. If the dog ventures outside the cones, it gets volts. A parallel course could be set up too.

Seems like a lot of 'thinking' to get a dog to search.

Your dog is searching likely cover - smart dog - now you've got to get him to know there's more likely cover to search - you do that by having him find ducks in all the likely cover.

[GPBLITZ]

When teaching duck search i like covering the pond with ducks . I might use 6-8 ducks, Ducks wings are taped, feet web taped closed. I like hens because they make lots of noise. Getting dog to expand I'll use a remote launcher on a flooting platform put in the reeds. I'll hit the locate button when dog turns to the sound I'll pop the duck. When dog becomes sure of it self I'l take the tape off the of the ducks and use less ducks. I'll also use just the launcher receiver ( hitting the locate button) a little to suck the dog into where i have a duck planted.

[TraditionsShorthairs]

When teaching duck search i like covering the pond with ducks . I might use 6-8 ducks, Ducks wings are taped, feet web taped closed. I like hens because they make lots of noise. Getting dog to expand I'll use a remote launcher on a flooting platform put in the reeds. I'll hit the locate button when dog turns to the sound I'll pop the duck. When dog becomes sure of it self I'l take the tape off the of the ducks and use less ducks. I'll also use just the launcher receiver ( hitting the locate button) a little to suck the dog into where i have a duck planted.

+1

If you have a kayak or canoe, you might also try dragging a duck across the water leaving a scent trail.

[orhunter]

DK:

Yes, but we're working with a dog that has trouble going straight out and the habit needs to be broken. Maybe overkill for some dogs but this is a special case where the dog is doing what it wants to do and not what the owner wants. Dog needs to learn to pass the test, it isn't about searching likely cover.

[jph]

send her while standing in the water.

[GPBLITZ]

Her intitial reaction is to always skirt/search the edges right or left istead of going directly across the open water and searching the oposite shore.

There is nothing wrong with a dog that skirts the edges right or left as long as the dog expands. A dog does not have to swim directly across the pond and start the search on the other side. Dog is being judged on there search and expandion . How the dog applys it self to the pond.

[birdawgs]

Her intitial reaction is to always skirt/search the edges right or left istead of going directly across the open water and searching the oposite shore.

There is nothing wrong with a dog that skirts the edges right or left as long as the dog expands. A dog does not have to swim directly across the pond and start the search on the other side. Dog is being judged on there search and expandion . How the dog applys it self to the pond.

Agreed! However the easiest way I can think of to burn ten minutes is to teach the dog to take a line across to the far shore, and they are less likely to get into trouble if out away from the shore you are standing on. I have seen dogs end up at the bird boxes, back at the trucks, seems they are always up to no good when they stick around.

[yawallac]

More ducks.

[GPBLITZ]

[quote="birdawgs"]Agreed! However the easiest way I can think of to burn ten minutes is to teach the dog to take a line across to the far shore, and they are less likely to get into trouble if out away from the shore you are standing on. I have seen dogs end up at the bird boxes, back at the trucks, seems they are always up to no good when they stick around.

Yep , All mine are pushed with the collar into the water, accross the pond and i can take them off a island ,point or any where putting them back in the water and expand. Just letting the OP know a dog that brakes right or lert searching from the line is OK.

[GPBLITZ]

Ya know there can be lots of cover that needs and should be searched between the handler and back of a pond. How many times have you had a crippled duck that wasn't found on the back of the pond hunting. myself many times duck are found some where in between.. We can look at this another way maybe a dog should be dinged if not loss a point for not searching cover between the handler and back shore line vs. blowing right by to reach back shore line.. HD in navhda stands for hunting dog. Testing, tests that closely simulate hunting scenerio. I'm not sure that adog that blows to the back side and only hunts that back side should be scored a 4. many receive a 4 for doing just that!!! JMO

[birdawgs]

Ya know there can be lots of cover that needs and should be searched between the handler and back of a pond. How many times have you had a crippled duck that wasn't found on the back of the pond hunting. myself many times duck are found some where in between.. We can look at this another way maybe a dog should be dinged if not loss a point for not searching cover between the handler and back shore line vs. blowing right by to reach back shore line.. HD in navhda stands for hunting dog. Testing, tests that closely simulate hunting scenerio. I'm not sure that adog that blows to the back side and only hunts that back side should be scored a 4. many receive a 4 for doing just that!!! JMO

Because it is a test and most judges are into that, it is not much different than a brace of dogs being released in a field trial and they race 300 yard across dam good cover to get to a woodline. I for one have only had one instance where I shot a duck and it sailed a long ways off, the dog was sent and had a mark on it but it was off so far she broke into a search to retrieve the duck. The only other time I will allow a dog to search is when the action is dead and I am hunting an area where others hunt and may leave cripples behind, 99.9% of the time the birds are marked and even if they are not I make a quick job of it with a little handling.

[DK dreams]

GPBLITZ +1 to each post.

A fault of mine is that I want hunting dogs not testing dogs.
We test to expose weaknesses (mostly in my training )

A dog with a natural thorough search expressing a will to find game is my goal and is what judges should be looking for.
We can only breed genetics - not training.

IMO, the dog in the OP needs better exposure to ducks further out and it would be good if a few ducks end up on land or in thick cover while they are out there so the dog learns to expand it's search to ALL likely cover. A dog should see cover and want to go there.