I tried to stay out of this urinating contest thread, but after the above comment, I plead guilty for taking the bait.
There is no contest and any bait has been purely fantasized by you.
How many dogs have you personally trained and/or FF?
Trained...20+ FF...16 First one that did both was a DD in 1972.
How many DDs did you go through before you finally had confidence to enter and go through the system?
Had nothing to do with confidence...if you mean the first dog that I felt was good enough....10 years ago.
They are important questions, considering your value on "... early maturing dogs ..." "because they are far more interesting and valueable...".
My opinion..or has that been outlawed while I wasn't looking. Its also an important aspect of JGHV testing....18 months (on average) and there are 5 retrieves at the HZP...would seem the Germans expect a lot...not just me.
Wouldn't we all just LOVE to get perfect dogs every time. But, fortunately, probably the majority of versatile dog owners don't so easily lose interest in their pups. Instead, they pursue on, train and develop their dogs into hunters. And, I'd submit that they have more to offer for experience and training tips than the guy who only sticks with the "perfect" specimens.
You lost me...what has this to do with FF?? Where are the perfect dogs??
I am very interested in seeing them.
I think that if you've had a pup for 10-mo, poured your heart, soul, and blood into it, you don't so easily just lose interest. I don't.
Who is giving up on any 10 month old pup. I sold one with a bad bite once. Otherwise, every dog I have sold was with me longer than that.
There was an excellent post that the pups might be ready, but the owners not. That speaks volumes.
No problem....most pups will just become hunting dogs and vanish...that's fine. But for those owners that take on the challenge of testing, waiting until May to start FF will usually not turn out well in September. Sounds like maybe like owners are more uncomfortable with FF than the dogs probably are.
My first DD wasn't perfect, moreso I wasn't either, but I stumble-bummed through training her, and we got through the system first time and were together for 14-yrs. Same with the next two, and also for 14-years each. And, I'm in it for the duration with my new pup.
Ditto...mine died in my arms.
You don't learn much about training from working with the dogs in the 99-percentile, and I think your comments reflect that.
Don't have any in the 99th percentile...but I do know that giving up 10-20 points at the HZP can often be avoided....and that mouthing, playing with, etc game the first season can be avoided. I can kill birds and rabbits and be WAY ahead for the spring test too.
I think that some of the other guys that "phooied" your first comments know that too, because they've rolled their sleeves up, gotten their hands dirty, and probably developed nice dogs out of what you would have culled. And, as a judge but moreso as a trainer/handler I have the greatest respect for the guys who test and hunt every year with dogs that to paraphrase you are "far less interesting and valueable". My God, just reading that again sounds so snobbish...
I'm glad that the breeders in Germany are not of the same opinion. There are hunting dogs and breeding dogs and not all are both. I was under the impression that was a fundamental principle in the Euro clubs.
But, I guess that your "perspective as a breeder" means that you don't just get a hunting dog... you're buying breeding stock. And, I thought we were a club of hunters breeding dogs for hunters.
Since when are breeding dogs NOT hunting dogs? You don't BUY breeding stock...you get a puppy and it proves to you its breeding stock. Each of us is entitled to our definition of what that means.
Theoretically, only a small percentage our our pups would be worthy to be your "breeding stock", and with that the "poor" guys that get stuck with dogs that you would wash out have to make do.
Well since only about 20% of each years production get a ZR number, it would seem a lot of folks agree with me.
It's interesting with your comments on another thread about why get an import with the dogs available over here... when the last I remember all of your dogs were imports! And, for sure the first two that I remember going to VGP. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Maybe you should be more honest about that, too.
I've had several US bred dogs....my latest pup is out of my own bitch.
Personally, I'll FF my pup WHEN SHE IS READY, not when her dentition is complete, with regard to hunting season, or to any other arbitrary schedule!
And you should....I'll be looking to see how that turns out for you.