Prey drive

General Sporting Dog Discussion

Moderator: Moderator Pack

Re: Prey drive

Postby AverageGuy » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:40 pm

I think good and experienced dogs will adapt their speed and range to cover, scenting conditions, and birds being hunted.

But I think I see quite a bit of linkage between speed, and to a lesser degree range, and prey drive.

I think of how most dogs will move out faster as the game moves out faster. How much harder and faster they swim when they hit the scent trail of a duck vs the speed they were searching in the water before they smelled the scent trail. I think of how young dogs act when they get into running pheasants. As the prey moves out more it triggers the dog's prey drive and they absolutely pick up the pace and it likely pulls them further into the field. That is linked to their intensity going up when they hit scent so perhaps we are seeing the same behavior and calling it two different things.

I think of how some dogs do not require as many bird encounters in a hunt to keep up that same pace and intensity in their search vs other dogs which quickly slow down between birds and put out less effort. I think the former has more prey drive than the latter.

When I see a dog pick up the pace and move out to locate the source of a scent it has detected and another dog hit the same scent and plod along wagging its tail, but the scent is not compelling it to move out faster and farther to locate the source, I believe the former dog has more prey drive than the latter for example.

I think of the hounds that run to catch what is laying down a track and being willing to work fast and drift the track because they want to catch the animal leaving the track vs. a different hound working the track slowly smelling every single place the animal walked. I think the former hound has more prey drive than does the one content to worship the track more interested in the scent than catching the animal leaving it.

I have hunted with lots of dogs in lots of venues and know my observations are not different than yours. Perhaps our terminology for what we are observing is different.
AverageGuy
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:05 am

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:28 am

orhunter wrote:Nice try Tait. We all know a Griff has a better nose.


HaHaHa, You wish;-)
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Prey drive

Postby Willie T » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:59 am

AG, I suspect we see much the same. The point I was trying to make is speed and range is a much better barometer of prey drive when making comparisons of dogs within a breed as opposed to across breeds, (as in the OP) due to the varying attributes of dogs of different breeds.
As a side comment: I much prefer hunting and training the dog that is "wired hot" for my personal preferences.
Willie
Willie T
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:26 am

Re: Prey drive

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 pm

Ha Ha Ha..... Simply not so....

Honestly, I've never seen a Pointer hunt Chukars. All I've seen is what's on TV where they're pointing a covey of quail in tall grass from five feet away. Hardly a demonstration of, "nose."
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7707
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Prey drive

Postby Willie T » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:02 pm

Orhunter, watching an exceptional pointer hunt spooky blue quail in the desert is a thing of beauty. It is quickly evident, when the scalies run out from under the point and the dog willingly gives up the scent to get out in front of the running devils and then pins them, that it is not possible without a keen nose and a lot of instinct. That is probably as close to a Chukar as we have in the south and a true test for any pointing dog.
Willie
Willie T
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:26 am

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:58 pm

orhunter wrote:Ha Ha Ha..... Simply not so....

Honestly, I've never seen a Pointer hunt Chukars. All I've seen is what's on TV where they're pointing a covey of quail in tall grass from five feet away. Hardly a demonstration of, "nose."


So this was something you made up or just weren't there? "Pointer vs Griff... That Griff I brought out from Wisconsin back in '09 was paired with a pointer for a day of Chukar hunting, both wearing tracking collars. At the end of the day when distance covered was compared, the Griff had covered more ground than the pointer. So in a sense, you're right. Range in its self may not be a true indication of prey drive. But what a dog does once it gets out there is. How determined the dog is to produce birds. Is the dog hunting or just running. The powers of observation, knowing what you're seeing is the key."

Here's a pointer in search of chukar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY9ysk7Z_mA, he pointed a covey over the top of the hill. Actually 3 coveys found by him and 3 by his sister that day. I would show you photos of what they look like pointing chukars (since you haven't seen it yourself), but I don't know how to post photos on this forum.
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Prey drive

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:29 pm

Tait:

Nothing I said had any indication Pointers can't, won't, don't, find or point Chukars. They probably make as fine a Chukar dog as any other top breeds. Only thing I relayed was one instance of Pointer vs Griff, hardly a consensus. Nothing to form an opinion on. Most any good dog with enough experience can learn to hunt Chukars and Huns if it has the nose. On days when birds are jumpy, a dog has to know where the birds are so it doesn't bump them which requires a solid point from maybe 70 yards. A good nose is a must. My dog was from Illinois if that makes a difference.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7707
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:20 pm

Orhunter, I was just teasing you from the beginning. I agree with you about bird dogs. I'm fortunate to have lots of chukars to hunt in awesome country, and good dogs to do it with.

Here's some country your brown dogs would be easy to see in. Another 500'-1000' in elevation and they'd be into birds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SK14_bGcQU
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Prey drive

Postby orhunter » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:35 pm

Whew. You were starting to sound a little too serious.

Try hunting in heavy fog where visibility ends at 30 yards. Color of dog doesn't matter a whole lot. My favorite Chukar area was like this all winter. Made for some easy shooting. I just followed the dog and when she headed into the fog and out of sight, I knew it was for a good reason. I'd go less than 40 yards the direction she went and come up on points every time. Birds had no idea we were there till we were right on top of them. Sometimes there wasn't a hundred feet between coveys.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7707
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Prey drive

Postby AverageGuy » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am

The EPs I have hunted with have shown on average excellent noses and ability to use them. They are the King of the Upland Specialists.

Spud getting airborne as a puppy while playing stop and go with a Rooster Pheasant in the soybeans.

Image
AverageGuy
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:05 am

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:18 am

Exactly what they are Kent, specialists.

I'm envious of you "accidentally" finding birds this time of year.
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:25 am

orhunter wrote:Whew. You were starting to sound a little too serious.

Try hunting in heavy fog where visibility ends at 30 yards. Color of dog doesn't matter a whole lot. My favorite Chukar area was like this all winter. Made for some easy shooting. I just followed the dog and when she headed into the fog and out of sight, I knew it was for a good reason. I'd go less than 40 yards the direction she went and come up on points every time. Birds had no idea we were there till we were right on top of them. Sometimes there wasn't a hundred feet between coveys.


Yeah, I don't like fog, or low, heavy clouds, thank goodness for Garmin. And dogs with lots of prey drive;-)
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Re: Prey drive

Postby Stretch » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:06 pm

I put Barrett out about 5:30AM today and about 45min later he’s scratching at the door with a live wood duck in his mouth. Would you consider that prey drive.
Stretch
Senior Poster
Senior Poster
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:32 pm
Location: SE Iowa

Re: Prey drive

Postby orhunter » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:22 pm

That’s cooperation.
SARCASM, one of the many free services I offer
orhunter
Champion Poster
Champion Poster
 
Posts: 7707
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:29 am
Location: nw oregon

Re: Prey drive

Postby STait » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:00 am

Stretch wrote: To me a dog with drive is one that’s is completely wore out but won’t quit unless you make him or her quit.


I agree, and this type of drive is genetic, but also developed. Example, I have three pups I'm starting (one now 6 months old and the other two, brother and sister are 7 months old) that I raised and kept to see how they do this fall and winter. I start my pups very early on in life on birds. Some of them will be chasing and grabbing dead quail at 5-6 weeks old and then live birds at 7-8 weeks old. Early on I could see the female was already showing serious bird desire by 3 months old. Her and her brother were finding wild birds (sage grouse) by 4 months old. The only difference between them was that the female already knew what she was on the ground to do. She hits the ground hunting and did it very early on. Both males are now developing that drive, with the younger male behind a bit. But, to me, that's what prey drive is, Hunting!!! By September they all will be tough to contain when running on wild birds and will likely need a little stimulation to get them back in the truck;-)
STait
Master Poster
Master Poster
 
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests