Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

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Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Cld22 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:05 am

So I thought I had finally chose a Pudelpointer. I love everything about them from what I have researched. Then I came across podcast on the Braque Francais and it got me researching that breed as well. Hopefully there are no breeds left that I don't know about lol What draws me strongly to both breeds more than any other is their general temperament and trainability. I probably have driven my poor husband crazy with dog talk, although he should be used to it by now :wink: He says there will be much more opportunity for duck hunting than any upland bird hunting. We are going to be on a lake, we would have to drive a bit for some upland hunting, we do have quail around, Gambel's, but he says they don't hold well and typically run from scarce cover to scarce cover and is not convinced a dog will be beneficial. From what I understand about the Braque is while they can do some water work they are more upland suited. The PP would be better for water than the Braque. I'm a newbie at this bird dog stuff so I appreciate any feedback and constructive criticism. I also have nothing against Labs but I would like something different. I could also do without the crazy shedding from them. It's not really mentioned but the Braque probably sheds like any short glossy coated breed, and from what I have read the PP sheds little to nothing at all( I talked to a breeder and he recommended a flatter coated PP is best for desert living). Just a matter of picking a dog and going with it? I can see both as being good hiking partners and honestly probably what I will do most of the time :)
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Chadwick » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:52 am

I have yet to meet a hunting dog that does not shed. You just have to decide if you want to deal with the undercoat turnover in wirehaired breeds or the near constant little hairs of a shorthaired breed.

Since you live in the desert, I would go with the Braque and I would try to get one with as white a coat as possible.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:17 am

I think relying on a conversation with a breeder and the internet barely scratches the surface on researching breeds (particularly the BF). Watching them work is far better.

There are numerous breeds around that have good temperaments and trainability so notions the PP or BF are somehow standouts in that area is simply breed bias in the persons you are speaking with and or a lack of experience with the good lines in many other breeds.

Many people successfully hunt Gambels quail with their dogs. Yes they run but the singles hold better, and dogs learn to deal with it. You and your husband perhaps choosing not to hunt them is a different matter.

If you find a good breeding in any of the breeds you are looking at I expect with proper exposure, experience and training you will be pleased. The wirehair breeds with undercoat are going to be more restricted in their ability to hunt in the heat, and that very much includes the PP.

I am hunting my 9 month old GWP 4 days a week and the difference in his search when the temps are in the 60s vs the 30s is dramatic. Some people can admit to their chosen breed's tradeoffs, a lot cannot.

A good line of versatile GSP would fit the bill the best for the country and game you will be hunting. But you have heard that several times already. Here is a GSP pointing a covey of Gambels in NM. The dog has an excellent sweet calm temperament, lives in the house with other dogs, travels all over the SW and MW, and has been a complete natural at learning its craft.

Image

Best of luck.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Cld22 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:59 am

All well made points! Even though we won't be in this area next year I have decided to see if I could a hold of the local chapter of NAVHDA to see if I could get up close with any dogs and talk to people. Not going to lie I'm a bit intimidated and hoping people are friendly :)
Christina :)
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Cld22 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:07 pm

@averageguy - So I keep saying good temperament and I realize that I may using that too generally and giving the wrong idea. A well bred dog of any breed should have a good temperament according to their breed, what I should say is biddable. For what I want in a dog is for him to be biddable and from what I have researched ( read, watched, etc all except see the dogs in person) some V breeds are more biddable than others. This is generally speaking of course. I'm new to hunting and handling/owning a hunting breed and I don't want to end bringing home something I can't handle and making life miserable for my family or the new dog. Both the Braque and PP seem to be the best options for me. I definitely get the bias a breeder may have towards their breed but I will be very honest with breeder as to what I am looking for in a dog and hopefully the breeder will be honest with me too, I believe a good one would tell me why this breed or a certain dog in particular isn't a good fit for everyone.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby AverageGuy » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:44 pm

That GSP in the photo is extremely biddable as is my current GWP. All about getting to the right litter. I don't sell any dogs, just giving you good advice based on a lifetime of hunting behind good/great dogs. Some mine, many owned by others of various different breeds. You are reaching conclusions on biddable, coat, heat tolerance, ability to hunt desert quail, and other issues without having seen a single dog of either breed in the field.

That is a real stretch. Could very well turn out ok despite, but in your first post you were inquiring about dog trials so you could go observe some dogs. You were on the right track then, now you are deciding between two breeds you have not even seen and discarding breeds recommended to you by numerous responders to your initial post from people with years of experience based on the specific criteria you provided ...
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby ForestDump » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:52 pm

You're going to find biddable/hard headed dogs in any breed you decide on. More about choosing the right line and breeder. The Braques are nice dogs but their gene pool is so small over here you're going to have a harder time getting everything you want than if you went with a more established breed.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby TimberdoodleWI » Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:24 am

I own my first Braque now, Prz II UT at 2yrs old, and am importing another in the spring and have been more than happy with the breed. My Braque took to water like a fish.. Handles colder water well enough too, although If you're in an area with gambels, its warm enough the coat wont make a difference for PP vs BF for waterfowl. Thicker coat could run hot for a PP chasing desert quail though. If you're interested feel free to contact me and I can answer questions you might have!
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Fatob » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:40 pm

Hi
Considering I have spent the last 14 1/2 years with a female BF, I figured I would add my two cents.
I live in eastern Canada. It gets cold and snows here. And it gets very hot in the summer.
The BF ends up walking on three, then two legs during very cold weather. No undercoat. Quite a bit of shivering after a hunt in the autumn rain. On the other hand, she has tolerated very hot temperatures, no problem (30C). And no stopping for water all the time. Especially until maybe 10-12 yrs of age. They were bred for that type of climate.
If this could be a consideration, she was the best family dog I could think of, NEVER EVER showing any impatience towards the three babies who have grown around her over the years. They could crawl into her bed, play with the food kibbles, pull her ears. Not one fuss. Even when old.
Regarding training, these dogs do not react well to impatience, anger, or frustration. How do I know this? Go figure...Even electric collars must be used sparingly if at all. They just want to have a calm, happy handler.
She has been put to sleep today. Chances are my next dog will be a Pudelpointer. For the colder weather.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Bill in Oregon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:44 pm

Fatob, I am sorry you had to say goodbye to your sweet and loyal friend. I hope your next dog fills the void.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby JTracyII » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:52 pm

The GSP from NAVHDA lines should not be overlooked.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby ryanr » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Cld22 wrote:@averageguy - So I keep saying good temperament and I realize that I may using that too generally and giving the wrong idea. A well bred dog of any breed should have a good temperament according to their breed, what I should say is biddable. For what I want in a dog is for him to be biddable and from what I have researched ( read, watched, etc all except see the dogs in person) some V breeds are more biddable than others. This is generally speaking of course. I'm new to hunting and handling/owning a hunting breed and I don't want to end bringing home something I can't handle and making life miserable for my family or the new dog. Both the Braque and PP seem to be the best options for me. I definitely get the bias a breeder may have towards their breed but I will be very honest with breeder as to what I am looking for in a dog and hopefully the breeder will be honest with me too, I believe a good one would tell me why this breed or a certain dog in particular isn't a good fit for everyone.


Listen to Average Guy's advice, reading your posts I absolutely thought thecsame thing, that you are reaching a lot of conclusions without having seen a number of dogs from either breed you're talking about, or any for that matter. IMO, the PP and Braque Francais are quite different, with the BF typically taking a much softer touch in training. PPs are strong, confident dogs that like most German versatiles thrive on discipline. I'm not at all saying you need to be harsh with them but if you're soft, they can run all over you. And if you're likely to hunt more ducks than upland and in the desert, a versatile bred GSP is likely a much better option than a PP. If you were doing mostly upland in the desert and wanted a softer easier going do that still hunts the heck out of birds, yeah the BF is likely your dog.

As for biddability, it's more breeding than breed. I have two Wirehairs, the natural biddability between them is night and day. My older dog is 5 years and while he's got powerful drive and an outstanding nose he'd be more than happy to hunt for himself. I've had to hammer down on him more often than I'd have ever hoped. Now my youngest is only going on 6 months but she's far more biddable and cooperative than he ever was even at that age. Now,after 5 yrs of my older dog, who I love and treat very well, I not only picked the kennel but also waited on a specific breeding exactly because I decided biddability and cooperation were the most important traits I desired. If she even has half the nose and drive of my older dog, which she more than seems too, I think there's no doubt she's going to be the best hunting dog I've ever had (and I had a Labrador that set that bar very high.)
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby Urban_Redneck » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:02 am

The original post is 13 months old, I wonder what breed they went with?
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby JTracyII » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:42 pm

Redneck,

Good point. I overlooked that as November being in the date fooled me. Moving on now.
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Re: Pudelpointer vs Braque Français

Postby JTracyII » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:42 pm

Redneck,

Good point. I overlooked that as November being in the date fooled me. Moving on now.
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